RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MichaelB »

In that case they will all be names of aboriginal hunters?

BTW, the wine lobby is very powerful.
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

I know, I've had to deal with them (the wine lobby) a couple of times in this job.
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by mphams70 »

Navy’s future frigates will be known as ‘Hunter Class’ with the Chief of Navy confirming the first of the Hunter Class Guided Missile Frigates (FFG) to be commissioned in the late 2020s.

In a signal to all Navy personnel, Vice Admiral Barrett said class name was chosen to reflect the tradition of naming RAN ships that promote Navy’s bond with the Nation. In this case, the first three ships of the Hunter class will proudly carry the names of three major Australian regions, all with strong historical maritime and naval ties.

The first batch of three will be named HMA Ships Flinders (II) (SA region named for explorer Captain Matthew Flinders - first circumnavigation of Australia and identified it as a continent); Hunter (NSW region named for Vice-Admiral John Hunter – first fleet Captain and 2nd Governor of NSW); and Tasman (state and sea named for explorer Abel Tasman – first known European explorer to reach Tasmania, New Zealand and Fiji).

The class name was specifically chosen for the alternate interpretation of a ‘hunter’ personifying the role of the frigates as a submarine hunter, with the term embodying the pursuit of prey.

"The replacement of our eight Anzac Class Frigates with nine frigates optimised for anti-submarine warfare…will significantly enhance the lethality of our surface combatant capabilities," CN said.

"These ships will incorporate world class design factors and integrated systems…that will change the way we conduct anti-submarine warfare operations. Our interoperability as a joint force and with our allies will improve."

As a result of the construction and delivery drumbeat, the Anzac Class frigates currently in operation will be in service through to the early 2040s. CN said the future frigate announcement is a game changer for Navy, the ADF and defence industry. "Beyond the frigate design, this decision demonstrates that Navy is an intrinsic national capability that connects the private and public sectors to deliver a fundamental national objective – security above, on and under the sea."
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by scott154 »

Thanks guys a great read from all posts. :tup: Scott
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

And a small reminder, these frigates are actually slightly longer, slightly wider and significantly heavier than the Hobart classs destroyer.

Length
150m v 147m

Beam
20.8m v 18.6m

Displacement
8,800 v 7,700 tonnes full load

They are not small vessels. To put this into perspective, they are not much smaller than the Navy's WW2 light cruiser Sydney (8,900 tonnes, 160m x 17m)

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by rritchie71 »

Well, I have to admit I did not expect that, considering the last two classes commissioned (the QE’s have not been around long enough yet to evaluate) have not worked, i.e. due to engineering issues, both the Astutes and Type 45’s have not achieved anywhere near the availability rates that were stated in the paper designs that where sold to the RN. In the end it doesn’t matter how good the weapons and sensors are if they cannot put to sea.

We really do seem to like taking the risky options, at least it looks good.

Tonnage is not the deciding factor of a frigate or destroyer designation, it is what it is built to fight in, i.e
An OPV or corvette is built for low intensity warfare
A Frigate medium intensity
Destroyer/cruiser for high intensity

The Hobart class are built for high intensity, these frigates will no doubt be more towards the ‘medium’, the tonnage probably is because the more stable the hull the better it can hunt and have room for mods over time, remember the UK’s back yard are the northern seas, it's not known for it's calm weather.


Robert
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

Actually, I believe that the RAN has embraced the modern NATO standard designation of Frigates as primarily ASW purposed ships and Destroyers being primarily AAW orientated ships.

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by rritchie71 »

Hi Mike, it would be funny if they did, as Nato countries didn't adopt it and it has been around for a very long time, i.e.

The Zeven Provincien’s, F100’s and Saschen’s are all AAW focused, (Zeven Provincien and F100 are also BMD capable), but for political purposes in the early 2000’s were all classed as frigates and don’t forget the Horizon AAW class, 4 identical ships, 2 for Italy which are referred to as destroyers and 2 for France, which are referred to as frigates.

Even the USN with the Spruance destroyers which were ASW focused and the French Georges Leygues ASW destroyers (although they have also been refferred to as Frigates as well).

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by SlatsSSN »

MikeJames wrote:Actually, I believe that the RAN has embraced the modern NATO standard designation of Frigates as primarily ASW purposed ships and Destroyers being primarily AAW orientated ships.

Mike


Yep agree. But I also think ASW capability was moved up a few notches in importance from the original SEA 5000 spec.
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by rritchie71 »

Attachments
Type 26 GCS_brochure_030717 web.pdf
(2.67 MiB) Downloaded 325 times
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by mphams70 »

Are we getting rid of Flag Wavers now?
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by RussF172 »

NEVER!!!!!! I just don't think they all the details for things such as yardarms, signal lights etc. They will be there somewhere. The AWD drawings didn't have signal lights noted on there either but they are there (four of them). Be assure is we get to build the models of them, they will have yardarms, halyards and signal lights. :yes: The plans for the CANBERRA didn't have those details on them either but I took some artistic license and fitted flag bins on the sides of the superstructure just forward of the central main mast and they must have liked the idea as they actually put them where I put them on the model. Maybe I should do this on the Type 26 and they will follow my lead.

Australian one - Flagbins
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by mphams70 »

Russ French, Naval Architect and Flag Waver extraordinaire.
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by BsHvyCgn9 »

mphams70 wrote:Russ French, Naval Architect and Flag Waver extraordinaire.



:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :tup: :tup:
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by rritchie71 »

BsHvyCgn9 wrote:
mphams70 wrote:Russ French, Naval Architect and Flag Waver extraordinaire.



:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :tup: :tup:


Russ obviously didn't have any input on the Zumwalt class :D
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by BsHvyCgn9 »

rritchie71 wrote:
BsHvyCgn9 wrote:
mphams70 wrote:Russ French, Naval Architect and Flag Waver extraordinaire.



:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :tup: :tup:


Russ obviously didn't have any input on the Zumwalt class :D


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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by glenhowells »

Was thinking three other names for the last 3 frigates Darwin, Melbourne and Newcastle will all be well overdue for naming by the time the last 3 are built. May seam odd but they named the last Anzac Perth that was a bit odd to. Anyway just a thought.

Cheers Glen
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

Future Navy

Hobart, Brisbane & Sydney - AWD
Hunter, Flinders & Tasman - Frigates (other potentials include Bass, Mawson, (Kingsford) Smith, Oxley, Blaxland, Lawson, Wentworth, Burke, Wills, Hume, Hovell)
Adelaide & Canberra - LHD
Stalwart & Supply - AOR
Arafura - OPV (other potentials include Carpentaria, Coral, Timor, St Vincent, Spencer, Shark etc)

That will leave Darwin, Melbourne, Newcastle and Perth as major cities with no RAN ship bearing their name.

I'm pretty sure that Glen is right and later Hunter class willl toss the announced naming conventions and pick up the city names.

Shame that so many smaller towns will lose that Navy relationship, places like Wollongong and Geelong, after being carried by the Bathurst class, the Fremantles and the Armidales.

Mike
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by glenhowells »

I'm not sure about all these new names. I'm a big believer in the history of a ships name carrying on a ships name to a new vessel is a way of keeping that history of ship and crew alive. Australian ship names plenty to choose from without adding new ones. Plenty of destroyer and frigate names that have not been a float for decades. The Bathurst class corvettes all served in WW2 all 50 of them deserve to be reborn in new ships. It's to keep history and honour alive. There is no greater honour for a navy to name a ship to carry on previous names I think is the right thing to do.
Cheers Glen
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

I personally cannot understand it, it's a direct snub to a lot of cities and towns in marginal seats.

As Admiral Rickover answered when he was asked why he stopped naming subs after fish and started naming them after cities..."Fish don't vote"
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by fastone045 »

Found these photos on the Navies website of a nice looking model of the new OPV.

Craig

20181115ran8557924_003.jpg

20181115ran8557924_013.jpg
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by RussF172 »

That poor model is getting bounced around all over the place. I see they haven't fixed the broken bits off it last time is was moved. Had to fix some stuff on it at Pacific last year. Bet it will still be doing the rounds at Pacific next year.
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

The Hunter class

Talked to a friend of mine in Defence today about Pacific 2019 before the discussion wandered to other subjects and he pointed out that the Hunter class are very close in size to a USN Arleigh Burke class destroyer, not considered a small ship.

Burke 509 x 66 x 30.5 feet (155 x 20 x 9.3 metres)
Hunter 498 x 68 x 27 feet (149.9 x 20.8 x 8.2 metres)

His comment was that these aren't small ships, and will be longer, wider, deeper and heavier than the Hobart class. They will also be marginally faster and longer ranged.

As he put it, the only surface warships we've operated that are larger are the battle cruiser Australia and the County class heavy cruisers Australia, Canberra and Shropshire. Something to think about.

Christian at MTB hulls has already done a type 26 hull in 1:96, so he can do a 1:72 version if he receives three orders.

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by RussF172 »

A 1:72 scale accurate HUNTER Class is on it's way, however won't be available for a little while due to restraints on releasing the drawings. They will be available eventually. No plans area available as yet to the public. I spoke to Christian about a hull a while back and he said he didn't have accurate drawings of it and worked off the computer generated images of it. I am talking to the right people about getting the hull and plans available as soon as possible.
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

The three Type 26 designs, left to right Hunter class, Canadian City Class, Royal Navy City Class

Image

Hopefully we will get to see / photograph lots of models of the Hunter / Type 26 at Pacific 2019 in October.

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Post by MikeJames »

Fascinating CGI image of the FREMM that was offered to the RAN, complete with CEAFAR radar mast and the red roo on the funnel.

Striking design, Christian at MTB hulls does the hull in 1:72 if anyone wants to do a What If.

Image

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

While the Hunter class (and the Attack class subs) get all the attention, Australia's third local shipbuilding program is flying under the radar a bit.

Construction of the first Arafura class offshore patrol vessel, NUSHIP Arafura is well underway at the Australian Submarine Corporation facility in South Australia. Arafura's forward and aft hull sections were joined on 5 April 2020. She is due to complete in the second half of 2021 and be operational in 2022.

Image

The keel for the second South Australian OPV, NUSHIP Eyre, was laid on 9 April 2020

Meanwhile the remaining ten ships, starting with NUSHIP Pilbara, are under construction at the Civmec facility in Western Australia. She will be followed by Gippsland, Illawara and Carpentaria, with the following six ships names not yet announced.

The thinking in Russell Offices apparently is that the six new Cape class just announced will be used for local coastal surveillance and border protection work, basically much of what the Armidale's have been tasked with in the last decade. The Arafura's will undertake long range Exclusive Economic Zone surveillance, looking for fishing poachers, and in summer heading south into the Australian waters off Heard and Macquarie Islands in the great Southern Ocean, chasing the large illegal fishing trawlers, and undertaking deployments into the South Pacific and South East Asia.

There is a clause in the contract that would allow the RAN to build up to three more of the class if required, and Navy has discussed building them with enlarged mission module bays under the flight deck to allow them to act as either survey ships or mine countermeasures vessels, using remotely piloted mine-hunting vehicles.

Mike
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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

Some Arafura class OPV news.

The first ships have been named
Arafura
Eyre
Pilbara
Gippsland
Illawarra
Carpentaria

In total 12 have been ordered. It is expected than up to eight more will be ordered to a slightly modified design to allow them to undertake survey duties and mine-warfare duties, using remotely operated mine-hunting vehicles.

Shame to see so many traditional names go by the wayside though, especially those carried by Bathurst class corvettes, then Fremantle class patrol boats and then Armidale class patrol boats.

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by MikeJames »

In what can only be described as a mind-bendingly stupid piece of decision making by Defence, Asia Pacific Defence Reporter has revealed the following

Arafura Class Need To Be Made Helicopter Capable As Soon As Possible
APDR Oct 2020

…In a decision that verges on the bizarre, Defence has changed the original design of the OPVs, removing strengthening from that area so that they now cannot support a helicopter landing. When APDR has previously pointed this out the reaction from readers has been one of disbelief: why would the RAN want to make the ships less capable than the parent design – especially in a critical capability such as helicopter operations.

Defence reasoned:
“Navy intends to deploy maritime unmanned aerial vessels on the Arafura Class OPV as operational requirements and system availability dictate. There are no current plans or intentions to deploy helicopters to, or operate helicopters from, the Arafura Class OPV.”

Just to restate that in another way: during the expected 40 year life of the ships, the RAN cannot foresee the need to ever land a helicopter on them. Not even once. With all due respect, this is just completely crazy. Even in peacetime there are any number of credible contingencies – such as medical evacuations and deliveries of supplies – where it will make life easier for everyone if a helicopter can rest on the deck rather than have to hover and winch things up and down.

To make the situation even stranger, removing the strengthening for the deck was only a very minor cost saving – in exchange for a major loss of capability. The reference design is the Darussalam-class offshore patrol vessel, four of which have been built for Brunei. Naval helicopters can land on all of them.

Ends

Oh my fucking god, the stupid, it burns...

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Re: RAN OPV and Frigate shortlist news

Post by Spartacus01 »

I am sure that whoever made this decision will be keenly sought to get a place on the Daniel Andrews government, as they have already demonstrated blatant incompetence!
Surely there would be a need for helicopters to deliver or pick up personnel and essential items during the course of operations including sick or injured, including those that may have been rescued from other vessels (for instance).
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