RAN "s temporary new tanker

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RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 16 Jul 2012 19:06

A new version of try before you buy.

The Deployment of Spanish Armada Ship Cantabria to Australia in 2013
30 June 2012

Image

The Minister for Defence, Stephen Smith, today announced that the Royal Australian Navy (RAN) would participate in a unique deployment to Australia of the Spanish Armada Ship, SPS Cantabria, with a series of training exercises in Australia from mid-February until November 2013.

The Cantabria deployment will strengthen the bilateral relationship between Spain and Australia, as well as providing important training and capability assessment outcomes for both the Spanish Armada and the RAN.

The Cantabria is a modern Auxiliary Oil Replenishment ship, similar to HMAS Success, which is capable of supplying fuel, food, stores and ammunition to ships underway.

This will be the longest deployment undertaken by Cantabria and will allow the Spanish Armada to trial the ship’s full range of capabilities including through activities involving both Cantabria and RAN ships and helicopters.

This training program will also include an exchange program between personnel from Cantabria and RAN units.

These exercises with RAN Ships and helicopters will culminate with Cantabria’s participation in the Australian International Fleet Review in October 2013.

The Cantabria’s deployment will also provide a valuable opportunity for the RAN to conduct early training for personnel earmarked for service in the Australian Navy’s new Canberra Class Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) ships and Hobart Class Air Warfare Destroyers (AWD).

Many of Cantabria’s systems are the same as the LHDs and AWDs, which are based on Spanish ship designs.

The deployment will provide a unique opportunity for Defence to undertake an assessment of the capability offered by Cantabria as Defence considers the replacement of HMAS Success and Sirius.

The deployment of Cantabria will also reduce the capability risk during Success’ next major maintenance period in 2013.

Cantabria will augment the afloat support capability provided by HMAS Sirius. Sirius is currently in maintenance at HMAS Stirling, which is due for completion next month.

The RAN and Spanish Armada will work together over the coming weeks to finalise the details of the deployment.

The Chief of Navy, Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, will travel to Ferrol, Spain, next week to represent Australia at the launching and naming of the second LHD, the future HMAS Adelaide.
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 16 Jul 2012 19:14

Some more background. The media has swallowed the ADF's line on this, not realising the true story.

The Cantabria is coming to Australia to provide emergency coverage for the RAN when Success goes into dock to try and fix it up and keep it running to 2020. She's in poor condition, a consequence of only having one bloody overworked AOR and a useless half-arsed tanker called Sirius. Fundamentally the same mindset that left us with two frakked up LPAs has left us in this mess with Success. The poor old girl is coming up on her 30th birthday and has been very hard worked. Her replacement should have been in service by now, but the money to buy two or three Cantabria's ended up being pissed against the wall for things like the Sea Sprite and landing craft debacles.

Given the good words I am hearing from my sources in Russell Offices I fully expect that Cantabria's deployment may be extended, while we order two under the same arrangements as the new amphibs, build in Spain, fit out here. Can you say Success and Supply?

Mike

AUSTRALIA is paying to keep cash-strapped Spain's navy afloat.
Herald Sun

Australian taxpayers will fork out millions more to subsidise a Spanish combat supply ship Cantabria that will spend next year with the Royal Australian Navy, providing support for training exercises.

Spanish newspapers are reporting that Australia will cover the ship's fuel, maintenance, and transportation costs, as well as living expenses for the 180 Spanish crew.

Spain will keep paying the sailors' salaries. Major Spanish newspaper El Pa aacs said the operation, which would run from February to November next year, was the Spanish navy testing "an unusual formula to maintain the operation of their vessels and crews, while reducing costs".

The report said the arrangement, which was signed off in Madrid this week, was good for the Spanish navy because it would keep the ship fully active.

Otherwise, it might not operate for more than 40 days next year. The report also said, if the ship impressed the Australian navy it might replace two old logistic support vessels with similar Spanish ships from shipbuilder Navantia.

The Department of Defence would not disclose the cost, but confirmed "Australia will be contributing to the operating costs of the deployment".

"Provision of a broad range of training opportunities means this will be a value-for-money proposition for the RAN," a spokeswoman said.

"The Royal Australian Navy and the Spanish Armada are working together to finalise the details of the deployment, and will continue to do so over the next few weeks."

The spokeswoman responded to the Spanish newspaper's speculation about a commercial opportunity, saying: "Cantabria's deployment will provide a unique opportunity for Defence to undertake an assessment of the capability offered by Cantabria as Defence considers the replacement for the ageing HMAS Success and Sirius at the end of this decade."

She said that Fleet Base East in Sydney would "become Cantabria's adopted home port".

Defence Minister Stephen Smith announced last week that Chief of Navy, Vice-Admiral Ray Griggs, was travelling to Spain this week to "pursue with his Spanish counterpart the arrangement we are proposing to enter into with Spain".

"This reinforces and underlines the growing navy-to-navy relationship that we have with Spain," Mr Smith said.

"We see Spain very much involved in the design and the construction of our air warfare destroyers, which we will see come on stream effectively in the middle of this decade, our landing helicopter docks, and now practical and co-operative work that we'll do next year in and around Australia with the Spanish Armada ship, the Cantabria.

"This is a very good thing for Australia. It's also a very good thing for Spain because it enables Spain to engage in exercises and deployment a long way away from home."

According to Jane's Defense, Armada chief of staff Admiral Manuel Rebollo Garcia called it a "clear example of pooling and sharing" of resources in the present financial crisis.
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 16 Jul 2012 19:22

If you want a look at what we are considering you can see some very nice models shots here from the Pacific 2010 and 2012 albums.

http://s554.photobucket.com/albums/jj419/Unicorn1111/Pacific%202012/

http://s554.photobucket.com/albums/jj419/Unicorn1111/Pacific%202010/

Personally, its my opinion that they're not a bad option, who knows, maybe we'll see a 1:72 hull soon enough via DM&G, although that bulbous bow will be a PITA.

Mike
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 22 Nov 2012 20:20

More on the Cantabria deal.

Arrangement Signed for the Spanish Armada Ship Cantabria to Deploy to Australia In 2013

(Source: Australian Department of Defence; issued November 9, 2012)

Minister for Defence Stephen Smith and Minister for Defence Materiel Jason Clare today announced that Chief of the Royal Australian Navy, Vice Admiral Ray Griggs, AO, CSC, RAN, has signed the project arrangement between the Australian and Spanish Navies for the deployment to Australia of the Spanish Armada Ship, SPS Cantabria from mid-February until November 2013.

The Cantabria deployment is a unique opportunity for both Navies and will strengthen the bilateral relationship between Spain and Australia.

“I am very pleased that the project arrangement for this innovative activity has been signed,” Mr Smith said. “It is a very sensible sharing of resources with positive training and capabilities for both the Armada and for the RAN.”

“Many of Cantabria’s ship systems are similar to the new Canberra Class Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) ships and the Hobart Class Air Warfare Destroyers (AWD),” Mr Clare said. “This arrangement will provide an opportunity for RAN personnel to train and familiarise themselves with Cantabria before they go on to crew the LHD and AWD.”

Vice Admiral Ray Griggs said, “The deployment as well as providing important training and capability assessment outcomes for both the Spanish Armada and the RAN is the way Navies will operate in the future. Navies have traditionally conducted mutually beneficial activities with each others’ nations so this is just smart defence.”

The Cantabria will augment the capabilities provided by HMA Ships Success and Sirius in providing support to the RAN during domestic and international training and exercises.

The Cantabria is a modern auxiliary oil replenishment ship, similar to HMAS Success, which is capable of supplying fuel, food, stores and ammunition to ships underway.

This will be the longest deployment undertaken by Cantabria and will allow the Spanish Armada to trial the ship’s full range of capabilities including the operating/maintenance cycle of the ship’s systems, and the logistics and maintenance support mechanisms for the ship.

Cantabria’s deployment will culminate with the ship’s participation in the Australian International Fleet Review in October 2013.

-ends-
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 22 Nov 2012 20:21

From a recent Senate Estimates session...

Cantabria


Senator JOHNSTON: Are they out here just because it is a good place to visit, or are they doing work for us?

Vice Adm. Griggs: There are a number of reasons. Firstly, from a Spanish perspective, they are very keen to do a long long-range deployment, so this is a good thing from their perspective. From our perspective, the platform system commonality between Cantabria, the AWD and the LHD is quite significant and one of the main aims from our perspective is to get as many of the first crew of the first LHD and first AWD, particularly the technical side, to see in Cantabria while she is out here to get exposure, experience and familiarity with some of that equipment that is common to these three classes of ship. She will also of course provide a tanker option for us over the course of 2013 particularly when Success is in her next extended maintenance period.

Senator JOHNSTON: Is it costing us anything?

Vice Adm. Griggs: $14 million, approximately.

Senator JOHNSTON: So we have a contract with Armada—

Vice Adm. Griggs: We have a memorandum of agreement and we have a project agreement which is yet to be signed but will be signed very shortly.

...

Senator JOHNSTON: So what are the planned operational exercises? What are we going to use our $14 million to do? Where are we going and what are we going to do with it?

Vice Adm. Griggs: She will be participating in all the standard training activities that Success would otherwise be doing.

Senator JOHNSTON: So the Anzacs and Adelaides?

Vice Adm. Griggs: Absolutely. She will also be participating in Talisman Sabre. That will also provide the Spanish crew with the opportunity to work with the Americans as well. So it will be actually quite a busy year leading up to the International Fleet Review and, of course, Cantabria will be the Spanish representative of the Spanish navy at the fleet review. Either side of the fleet review we have a major exercise and Cantabria will be participating in both of those and, of course, tanker assets, when you have got about 40 ships coming, become pretty important because what we want to do is fuel all the ships participating before they come into Sydney rather than trying to do that in Sydney Harbour.

...

Senator HUMPHRIES: Okay. Going to the Cantabria, who actually has command and control of that vessel when it is here?

Vice Adm. Griggs: The Spanish will obviously retain national command of the vessel, with a Spanish commanding officer, but the ship will be passed formally under the operational control of our fleet commander. What we have is an agreed set of circumstances where we can employ the ship, an agreed set of circumstances where we cannot employ the ship and a third list of things that we need to go back to Madrid and discuss at the time. So we have thought through all the different scenarios and we are very comfortable with what we have come up with.

Senator HUMPHRIES: We have done this before, presumably with other nations.

Vice Adm. Griggs: Not to this extent. This is quite groundbreaking in many ways.

...

[Later]

I have also just got the breakdown of the $14 million for the Cantabria deployment. There is a little bit of rounding but it does add up to $14 million, and I have checked that. The figures are: pre-deployment preparation and maintenance, $2.7 million; fuel, $4.6 million; crew deployment allowance—this is not their wages, which the Spanish are paying, it is a specific allowance for the deployment itself—$4 million; victualling and supplies, $800,000; shore based support team, $150,000; port services while in Australia, $250,000; transit costs through the Suez Canal, Panama Canal and other port visits whilst en route, $250,000; support costs, $50,000; core ship's crew on compassionate travel, $200,000; and contingency, $1 million.
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MichaelB » 23 Nov 2012 17:50

Let's hope things have improved since the RN sailed with them in the Gulf.

This comment from that time.

While patrolling the Persian Gulf during the 1991 Gulf War, I was particularly frustrated trying to communicate with our Spanish consort and language was becoming a safety issue working at close quarters during a replenishment at sea. I finally sent the message, REQUEST ENGLISH SPEAKING OFFICER ON BRIDGE", to with the Spanish operator replied "I AM ENGLISH SPEAKING OFFICER"
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby RussF172 » 23 Nov 2012 19:19

They plan on putting quite a few of our crew on there for the duration of their deployment. Hopefully that will help. We had similar issues with them in the Gulf in 90-91. You couldn't do anything with them from around 2pm until around 4pm as they had a siesta time!!!! WTF!!! :stupid:
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 21 Feb 2013 20:02

ESPS Cantabria demonstrates her versatility

4 February 2013
by
LCDR Gerry Savvakis

The last two weeks of January have been a busy period for ESPS Cantabria (CMDR J.L. Nieto) and her embarked RAN DET. Having successfully navigated the Suez Canal, Cantabria entered the Gulf of Aden (GoA) area of operations. Cantabria conducted Replenishment at Sea (RAS) activities in support of EUNAVFOR units deployed as part of CTF 465 conducting the European Union led OP ATALANTA which seeks to detect, prevent and repress acts of piracy within the GoA and Horn of Africa (HoA) region.

Cantabria's RAN DET personnel were treated to a brief glimpse of the shape of things to come when Cantabria's ARMADA counterpart, ESPS Mendez Nuñez (now two months into a four month deployment), took her opportunity to replenish with some much needed fuel and victuals direct her homeland, Spain.

In an impressive display of her integrated logistics capabilities, Cantabria, successfully completed a simultaneous dual RAS Liquids (L) and Stores (S) with Mendez Nuñez on her port side, and the French La Fayette class Frigate, FS Surcouf on her Starboard side.

Upon completion of RAS operations, Cantabria's flight deck and logistics teams were put through their paces during the conduct of a thirteen pallet VERTREP consisting of stores and fresh supplies from Cantabria to Mendez Nuñez via “Toro 07”, Mendez Nuñez's embarked SH60B Seahawk. “Toro 07” concluded the evolution with a demonstration of the pilot’s aeronautical prowess, in the form of a spectacular fly past between both ships with meters to spare on either side.

With the spectre of piracy ever present, Cantabria remained in company with Mendez Nuñez who provided mutual protection for the next 32 Hours as both ships transited the Socotra Strait en-route to Cantabria's next replenishment commitment with the German Frigate, FGS Karlsruhe.

Early the next morning Cantabria demonstrated her flexibility and the outstanding attributes of her Level II Medical Reception Facility, by responding to a request from Mendez Nuñez for a MEDEVAC of one crew member requiring an X-ray examination. Cantabria again welcomed “Toro 07” on deck as the patient was adroitly whisked into the ship's hospital for treatment by Cantabria's embarked Medical Officer. Happily, the crew member was subsequently returned to Mendez Nuñez safe and well.

After rendezvousing with FGS Karlsruhe South East of Socotra Island in the Indian Ocean, Cantabria again performed her core role by delivering fuel to both ship's via a RAS(L). Upon completion, Cantabria departed the area, but not before Mendez Nuñez had an opportunity to conduct a 'throw off firing', discharging her Five Inch Gun using Cantabria's bow as a point of reference. A fitting send off for Cantabria and her crew as they embark on their nine month deployment to the Great Southern Land.

LSCIS Kristal Moona stated that the throw off firing was the highlight of the passage through the GoA, she said after the fact 'I knew that both ships had taken all possible precautions but there was always that sense of what if? I couldn't help but squeeze the person next to me!'

After a tense transit through the HoA area of operations, the members of Cantabria's combined crew and RAN DET, were afforded a short two day respite on the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) of Diego Garcia. Coinciding with Australia Day, Cantabria's arrival in Diego Garcia proved to be an auspicious occasion. RAN DET personnel could not help but celebrate their nation day, and took the opportunity to treat their Spanish hosts to some Antipodean Hospitality, by inviting their Spanish counterparts to an old fashioned game of beach cricket.

The transit from Diego Garcia to Australia will be the longest leg of the journey so far, spirits are high and the Spanish crew is very eager to find out what awaits them upon arrival to the other side of the world.
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 21 Feb 2013 20:07

Cantabria 16.jpg
Cantabria and Canberra 01


Spanish Armada Ship Cantabria in Port Phillip Bay sailing past NUSHIP Canberra.

Today the Spanish Armada Ship Cantabria arrived in Australia at the Port of Melbourne just 41 days after departing La Graña Naval Port on the 3rd of January this year.

Cantabria sailed over 11,000 nm (approx 20,000 km) transiting the Suez Canal as well visiting locations such as Souda Bay, Crete and Diego Garcia.

The arrival marks the commencement of its year long deployment to Australia from February to November 2013. The deployment is a result of the excellent relationship between the Spanish Armada and the Royal Australian Navy (RAN).

SPS Cantabria is a modern Auxiliary Oil Replenishment ship, similar to HMAS Success, which is capable of supplying fuel, food, stores and ammunition to ships underway.

During the deployment Cantabria will participate in mutually beneficial training and exercises with Australian naval ships and helicopters. The deployment will culminate with Cantabria’s participation in the Australian International Fleet Review in October 2013.

Cantabria was built in 2007 and commissioned into service in the Spanish Armada in 2009. The deployment will allow the Spanish Armada to trial the ship’s full range of capabilities, including the operating/maintenance cycle of ships systems, and the logistics and maintenance support mechanisms for the ship.

Source DOD
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby BsHvyCgn9 » 02 Apr 2013 12:35

G'day All,

SNS Cantabria has been here in Adelaide over the Easter weekend and I managed to get out to Outer Harbour for some pix as she departed this morning.

Cheers Bruce (B2) :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
Attachments
SNS Cantabria10.jpg
aft view on saturday
SNS Cantabria11.jpg
Two of Port Adelaide's tugs standby to assist her
SNS Cantabria4.jpg
heading out
SNS Cantabria6.jpg
SNS Cantabria13.JPG
SNS Cantabria8.jpg
SNS Cantabria14.JPG
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby scott154 » 02 Apr 2013 12:49

Great photos Bruce! :tup:
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 02 Apr 2013 22:26

Nice shots Bruce.

If there was a hull available I'd build her (though a version in Storm Grey would be preferable) :)

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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby SlatsSSN » 03 Apr 2013 11:05

Mike its not that hard to build your own hull. Alternatively you could see if Tim Amos could do you one. Tim has many members new hulls underway. Key issue first is finding plans.
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby SlatsSSN » 03 Apr 2013 11:06

Bruce, that top photo looks like she's sitting on the beach. I imagine the water drops away quite deep pretty fast.

J
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby BsHvyCgn9 » 03 Apr 2013 12:55

Yeah John its been very deeply dredged there mate, deep enough for the Collins class subs to tie up there too..

here's a couple more pix...

Cheers Bruce (B2) :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Pity it wasn't open for a walk around....
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SNS Cantabria7.jpg
you can see the weird flow effects around GONZO's nose....
SNS Cantabria2.jpg
coming up the Port river
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 03 Apr 2013 17:06

John,

Navantia is notoriously difficult to get plans out of. The only way we have the ASWD and LPH phulls is that the local partners wanted models built, otherwise we'd be out of luck.

Mike
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Re: RAN "s temporary new tanker

Postby MikeJames » 30 Aug 2013 08:17

The Prime Minister was in Williamstown at the BAE Systems (formerly Tenix) shipyard yesterday to make a campaign announcement that if re-elected they would have two new replenishment ships built for the RAN commencing in 2015.

The description given, completion of ship one and possibly building of the second ships hull suggests that they may have adopted Navantia's offer for two hulls for Cantabria class vessels to be built in Spain and shipped out (same method as the Canberra class which are being fitted out down there).

While there's no doubt the RAN needs new ships, (Success is almost 30 years old) the chances of Mr Rudd being returned to follow through on the promise aren't all that good, barring a last minute turn around in the polls.

Like the suggestion to relocate the facilities of Garden Island to Brisbane, supposedly costing $6 billion (more like $15 billion), this one seems to have been a throwaway to appeal to voters in electorates (Brisbane in the case of of GI, Melbourne with this announcement), particularly as the Government's own report delivered recently advised against moving from GI on both cost and practicality / operational grounds.

A shame really as the RAN desperately needs the replenishment support and Sirius is apparently not particularly capable.

Incidentally, there was a whisper that the Spanish Navy had offered Cantabria to the RAN on a 'as is, where is' basis. I doubt they would take it up though, I understand Navy wants two new vessels, not another second hand ship purchase (anyone remember the issues with Manoora / Kanimbla / Sirius / Chouls?)

Mike

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