Paint Headache

General Discussion and Questions regarding TF72 and Ship Modelling
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Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 20 Jan 2011 16:16

Hi All,

For the past couple of months I have been hobbling around on crutches driving the women crazy and visa versa. With a broken leg and a long period off work, I have been able to catch up with some neglected modelling.
On return from our trip to Melbourne and visiting the hospital clinic for further inspections etc, I decided to stop at Bunnings and buy some paint namely AP507A and AP507C. I showed the gent behind the counter the email Mike Brown had sent me regarding paint details. After a long wait and legs ( the good one going numb) the gent finally returned saying such colour does not exist and after phoning Dulux - they also deny existance of such colours. I picked up my email and walked out really miffed. ( I wanted to purchase the paint from Bunnings as I was given several Bunnings Gift Vouchers for Christmas, hence - no outlay)

Whilst driving home I mentioned to the good lady about the paint store back home and proceeded directly to the shop. I was eagerly greeted by the owner and again showed the email - response - this is no good, AP507A and AP5027C mean nothing to me as I need a colour name and manufacturer. After a long discussion about being a shade of grey and looking through many colour charts - I gave up especially not fully knowing what shade of Grey these 2 paints were. The store owner suggested I get a sample of each colour on some white flat cardboard or similar and they could then match the colour.

So, all you good people out there - would someone be kind enough and paint some samples onto Styrene and send to me. It's difficult on crutches and rely on the missus for getting around.

Floods - by the way, I had a tidal wave come down my drive way and flooded my sheds. The models float really well but unfortunately, some radio gear and othe valuables did not fair well - the shed is still on the nose...

Martin in Kynten
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 20 Jan 2011 19:01

AP507C is easy, it is Dulux London Fog.

Will do 507A for you on some plastic.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MikeJames » 20 Jan 2011 20:16

Damn Martin, sorry to hear of your flooding.

At least you and your wife are safe, all else is replaceable.

Mike
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 20 Jan 2011 20:45

MichaelB wrote:AP507C is easy, it is Dulux London Fog.

Will do 507A for you on some plastic.


Hi Michael,

I told both the local paint store and Bunnings that 507C was London Fog - response was "not listed on their computer or charts....Grrrrrr....

If possible, could you please supply sample of 507C as well......your help is much appreciated and thanks again.

Martin from Kyneton spelt correctly this time...
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 22 Jan 2011 17:30

Will send a sample of London Fog which I got from my Bunnings this morning & AP507A.

Just asked the guy & he made it up.

BTW These paints were always high gloss not matt but I'd use semi gloss on the models. Deck paints were high gloss too, nobody really knew how to make matt paint back then.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 24 Jan 2011 19:35

Here you are, the formula for London Fog is attached.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 07 Feb 2011 10:05

Hi Michael,

Been bouncing in and out of hospital again. I have an infection that just does not want to go away :taz:

I don't understand why you can get the paint easily at your Bunnings store and I am having difficulty here. I thought all the Bunnings stores used the same software.
Anyway, thanks for your offer to send a painted sample of each colour..

Martin B
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 07 Feb 2011 12:01

Oh dear, I mailed them off back in january. Assume not arrived. Will do another lot.

They should be able to mix it up from that formula. Sounds like your guy is someone short of intelligence or simply can't be bothered. My guy is into restoring 1950s motor bikes so knows the seriuosness of properly matching paints.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 27 Feb 2011 09:51

Thanks Michael,

Samples and formula arrived Friday. Didn't realize AP507C was so light. Think I might paint my MTB in AP507B as I think it will look better than the LAG grey/green at present..

Thanks again for for going to the trouble...

Martin B :D :D :D
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 28 Feb 2011 20:58

Depends when the MTB is, if up to circa 1954 would have been that colour, after that LAG with green decks then from 1968 Light Weatherworks Grey with green decks & from 1978 LWG with Dark Admiralty Grey decks.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 28 Feb 2011 21:15

MichaelB wrote:Depends when the MTB is, if up to circa 1954 would have been that colour, after that LAG with green decks then from 1968 Light Weatherworks Grey with green decks & from 1978 LWG with Dark Admiralty Grey decks.


Is their anything "you don't know" about paint.

Had a discussion with a gent in the UK (best model I have ever seen of BB) and agreed that Brave Borderer looks better in AP507B with the green decks. By the way, do you know the colours for Battleship "Prince of Wales" pre camouflage colouring. Have just modified the bow and needs repainting...... :clap:

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 01 Mar 2011 16:16

Depends what he calls AP507B, except for small cans of paint from White Ensign, you can't buy it.

Anyway, AP507B stopped circa 1945 except for use on ships in reserve and BB commissioned in 1960. Think she decommissioned before grey decks came into use.

Try Light Weatherworks Grey as it is a medium grey. Have a look at the photos of Cleo or Geoff's Leander. That is the hull colour they use. A standard colour which your little man at Bunnings will no doubt never heard of.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 03 Mar 2011 13:27

BTW. Per an ex sailor on her, Brave Border’s pennant number was red and the anti fouling was all black.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 03 Mar 2011 20:54

[quote=Try Light Weatherworks Grey as it is a medium grey. Have a look at the photos of Cleo or Geoff's Leander. That is the hull colour they use. A standard colour which your little man at Bunnings will no doubt never heard of.[/quote]

Do you ask for "Light Weatherworks Grey" by name - is this a Dulux colour? Hopefully by the weekend I can purchase my paint from an automotive supplier instead of Bunnings - have lost faith in them...

At least I got the Pennant number and anti fouling correct...

Thanks again Michael....

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby grahamwpd » 03 Mar 2011 21:35

G day Martin, Not sure which period you are chasing down but have you checked out British Standard Colours ,(I remember a long time ago supplying Lt. Admiralty GRey Bsc 631? for some work being carried out at WRE for the IKARA at that time, other shades were DK.Admiralty Grey BSC what ever ,French Grey from memory was used on internal cabinets) most Standards Australia would still have the colour charts in stockCheers Grumpy :wlr:
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 04 Mar 2011 09:01

BS381C 676 Light Weatherworks Grey is the colour to ask for. I get mine made up at a Dulux trade store but it should be on any decent paint suppliers computer as a standard colour. I've got it from Mitre 10 & Bunnings in the past. You just have to get somneone who has their brain in gear.

Dark Admiralty Grey is BS381C 632 also known as an Australian standard colour AS2700 N63 Pewter.

The current Light Admiralty Grey BS381C 631 is not the same colour as that used by the RN in the 1960s. In 1964, British Standards changed the spec from a blue grey to a duck egg blue. The old colour under some lights looks like a pure grey > have a look at colour photos of the RN in the 1960s. All LAG.

Then have a look at the colour HMS Cavalier is painted > duck egg blue & always looks duck egg blue.

But we have a dulux formula to mix the proiper LAG.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 04 Mar 2011 09:58

BS381C 676 Light Weatherworks Grey is the colour to ask for. Is this the colour for KGV Class Prince of Wales Hull and Superstructure. In the past, I have not had any problems in getting British Standards paints, it's only the AP507 No's that seem to confuse them.

Although I like to paint my models in their original colours, Brave Borderer looks foul in LAG - too green. I'm going to experiment around with various shades of grey and see what appeals.

With regards to HMS Vanguard and the waterline - is this line between the grey and thin black strip or the black strip and Antifouling - currently confused :hlp:

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 12 Mar 2011 19:15

Martin,

If your LAG is too green it is the modern one not the real one. I will try & scan the two together to show you the difference.

A photo of BB in light weatherworks grey attached.

KGV depends on the year you are building it, but not Light Weatherworks Grey, that colour didn't exist until the 1970s.

The black line (boot topping) is seen on most RN ships, a good way of not having the filthy water marking a nice grey hull. Handy for a modeller as you can ballast the model a bit deeper than corest.

What year is yor KGV to be?
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BB In light weatherworks grey.jpg
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 12 Mar 2011 19:18

Anti fouling red is Australian Standard AS2700 R63 Red Oxide.
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 13 Mar 2011 08:39

MichaelB wrote:Martin,

What year is yor KGV to be?


Probably around the Hood - Bismark battle...

I modified the bow and need to paint it but uncertain what shade of grey or type of paint JM used on the hull....a bit of a mystery..

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 13 Mar 2011 08:46

MichaelB wrote:Martin,

If your LAG is too green it is the modern one not the real one. I will try & scan the two together to show you the difference.

A photo of BB in light weatherworks grey attached


That photo of BB looks better - not so green. Is their an Humbrol or WEM colour that is close to Light weatherworks grey... :?

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 13 Mar 2011 17:19

Martin,

WEM do light weatherworks grey in their range of Modern RN colours.

Did you get the LAG mxed up per the formula I posted or ask the shop for it? Shouldn't be green, in fact in the BS381 series, they have it under their blues.

I have painted a swatch of AP507B which is waht KGV would have been at that time and will send it down. Go to a dulux shop & get is scanned for a mixture by them. They are the pros at this.Looked at my samples of BS381C & it is none of them. Will have a look though BS4800 as it might be in there.



http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12030

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 13 Mar 2011 17:30

Martin,

An idea of the two RN greys, some photos of ships in Light Admiralty Grey & Light Weatherworks Grey at regattas.
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Cleo & Tartar.jpg
2 LWG & 1 LAG model.jpg
2 LAG models.jpg
3 LAG models.jpg
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 13 Mar 2011 23:46

Michael,

I'll send an email and attach several pics of BB - hopefully the greenish colour of LAG will be visible - Don't know how to post pics here as I don't use photobucket...

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 13 Mar 2011 23:52

MichaelB wrote:Martin,


Did you get the LAG mxed up per the formula I posted or ask the shop for it? Shouldn't be green, in fact in the BS381 series, they have it under their blues.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12030

Michael


From memory, you supplied me with the BS code and the paint shop mixed accordingly. They had all the BS codes on their computer...

The photo's all look a lot lighter than my model....
Martin
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MichaelB » 14 Mar 2011 08:16

Oh dear, I said don't use the standard colour as it was changed. we have the formyula from dulux for the real colour!


by MichaelB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:01 am



[color=#FF0000]The current Light Admiralty Grey BS381C 631 is not the same colour as that used by the RN in the 1960s. In 1964, British Standards changed the spec from a blue grey to a duck egg blue. The old colour under some lights looks like a pure grey > have a look at colour photos of the RN in the 1960s. All LAG.

Then have a look at the colour HMS Cavalier is painted > duck egg blue & always looks duck egg blue.
But we have a dulux formula to mix the proiper LAG.[/color]
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 14 Mar 2011 09:33

MichaelB wrote:Oh dear, I said don't use the standard colour as it was changed. we have the formyula from dulux for the real colour!


by MichaelB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:01 am



[color=#FF0000]The current Light Admiralty Grey BS381C 631 is not the same colour as that used by the RN in the 1960s. In 1964, British Standards changed the spec from a blue grey to a duck egg blue. The old colour under some lights looks like a pure grey > have a look at colour photos of the RN in the 1960s. All LAG.

Then have a look at the colour HMS Cavalier is painted > duck egg blue & always looks duck egg blue.
But we have a dulux formula to mix the proiper LAG.[/color]


That'll be right! - another painting blunder :crs:

Martin the :censor:
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby grahamwpd » 15 Mar 2011 13:56

G day Michael, have been following this thread with interest, you certainly know your colours, Question ,what level of gloss do you ask for & what type of finish do you use?acrylic lac/enamel) intend to have a discussion here at FBGW on finishes,paint colour etc in near furture. Cheers Grumpy :wlr:
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Re: Paint Headache

Postby MartinBg » 17 Mar 2011 08:34

Michael,

Check your email..

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Re: Paint Headache

Postby kimwhite » 17 Mar 2011 09:42

Hi,
not sure if this is helpful but here is a shot of Glamorgan's turrets in the correct colour for LAG in the 1960's, as supplied per Mike B's formula and Dulux.
Kim
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Turrets.jpg

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